New Varroa Mite Treatments for Beekeepers

WEBVTT

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May I have your attention, please? The following

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is not the real Jeff Fox release. If your teenage

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son wants nothing more than to live the life

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of a drone bee, you might be a beekeeper. If

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you do more splits than a gymnast, You might

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be a beekeeper. If you refer to your divorce

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as swarming behavior, you might be a beekeeper.

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I'll give you a minute to think about that one.

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Welcome welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented

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by Man Lake. Our guests today are coming to us

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all the way from Florida and Argentina as we

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will have David and Paulo from Vita Bee Health

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on the show. We will be discussing all things

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Varroa and Vita's new oxalic acid based strips.

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Before we check in with them we have a brief

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update on this year's record colony losses. Researchers

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from Washington State University are projecting

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that U .S. honeybee colony losses could be upwards

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of 70 percent this year. The last figure we heard

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was 62 percent, so this news is getting even

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worse. While colony losses average 40 to 50 percent

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annually, this number is a big increase. Here's

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a quote from their press release. This year,

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a combination of nutrition deficiencies, mite

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infestations, viral diseases, and possible pesticide

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exposure during the previous pollination season

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led to the higher losses. Sorry for the bad news,

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but we did promise updates as they came in. Now

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to learn more about keeping our bees healthy,

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let's get to today's interview. I would like

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to welcome to the show today two very special

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guests coming to us, one from Florida and that

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is David Westervelt and all the way from Argentina,

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Paulo Miego. How are you this morning, guys?

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Doing great. Yeah. Hello. Hello. Thank you. Thank

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you for the invitation and for the time. You're

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welcome. And Paulo, I know I didn't pronounce

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your name perfectly. I apologize. It was perfect.

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Close enough. No, it was perfect. Tell us what

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it means. So, Mielgo is a Spanish surname from

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Extremadura, Spain. And the first part of the

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of the surname, which is Miel, is honey in Spanish.

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So yes, quite unique name for this job. You were

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destined to... to have a job here. Now these

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guys both work with VitaBee Health and so we're

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going to be talking about all things Varroa and

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I know we get sick of hearing about Varroa but

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I don't know about you but I always have something

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to learn. These guys know the ins and outs of

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it and other ailments that are hurting our bees

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out there and they can give us a lot of great

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information. David? Would you first tell us a

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little bit about your experience in beekeeping

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and then Paula will let you do the same? Sure,

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that'd be great for me to tell you about beekeeping.

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I started beekeeping when I was about five and

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a half years old. I got interested into it. Because

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a neighbor of my dad's had bees on our property,

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ran about 40, 50 hives of bees on our property.

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And my dad thought I was nuts. He's like, why

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are you going out to work, play with bees? And

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I was in shorts and nothing else. So as I got

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involved in them, I went further and further.

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By the time I was in senior and high school,

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I had about 125 hives and actually wanted to

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become an inspector. Unbeknownst to me, I decided

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to go into the Army and spent 14 years in service

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going throughout the whole world. But during

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that time, I got to check on bees throughout

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28 different countries and then came back to

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the States and went into the Florida Department

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of Agriculture working as a other personnel service,

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they call it OPS. So you're virtually nobody.

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And I worked through there doing research and

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working on then a new pest called varroa mites

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and tracheomites. And so we were testing different

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products. I worked all the way up to being the

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Chief of Apiary Inspection for 28 years with

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the Department of Ag there in Florida. Retired,

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and Sebastian asked me if I wanted to come to

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work for VITA, and I was very happy. I'd known

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them through the ApiGuard, which is one of the

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products that we also sell, which is a thymol

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product, and I've enjoyed every bit of retirement

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working with Paula. Sebastian, Max Walken, it's

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a whole group. It's a wonderful group. Thank

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you, David. And my apologies, I pronounced it

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Vida. So thank you. Vida, Vida Bay Health. Well,

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you know your stuff. Go ahead, Paulo. OK, well,

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I'm second generation of beekeepers here in Argentina.

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I've been working with bees since I remember.

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Argentina is the only country in the world that

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you can go to the best school. became a big bet.

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So I am a big bet. Instead of studying all the

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animals during your five years of university,

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you focus only on honeybees. So that is my degree

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in this world. And I'm starting. giving some

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talk when I was very young to be keepers as a

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consultant here in Argentina. And after that,

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I agreed to go in Mexico and other South American

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countries. And I end up accepting a job for a

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company in Argentina that tried to develop a

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few feet for the honeybees back in 2011. So that

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is when I started to work on R &D. In 2016, I

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received an offer from VITA, VITA Europe or VITA

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V Health. We call VITA because it's an Italian

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word, which means life. And they offered me the

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possibility of being in charge of the R &D department.

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And I accepted and I moved to the UK. And since

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then, I'm working for VITA in R &D. But you're

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back in Argentina, your home. I'm back in Argentina.

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Yes. Yes. I'm back in Argentina now. Before we

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get into all the Varroa everything, David, give

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us a wild and crazy beekeeping story. You said

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earlier you have tons of them. I'll go back to

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one that happened about 45 years ago. When I

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was 12 years old, we decided to go to North Carolina,

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which we have a cabin in North Carolina. And

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my mom and dad and I drove up there in a Datsun

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pickup truck. If you can remember, you're talking

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in the 70s. So we drove up there and bought 35

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hives of bees. At the time, the hives of bees

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were about $15 apiece. And that was my savings

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I had saved from working on bees. And so we loaded

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the bees up. They were all in singles. And we

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could fit about 17 in the back of a Datsun pickup.

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The problem was, mom could sit in the front,

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my dad could sit in the front. So I got the fun

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of riding on the back of the truck with 17 hives

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of bees all the way from North Carolina down

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to, well, we got down to Orangeburg, South Carolina,

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I think it was, and we were getting a little

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low on fuel. So we stopped. to get fuel. And

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where we stopped at, there was this little guy

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airing up his bicycle tire. And he looks over

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at me and says, Mr, what are you sitting on?

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And I said, beehives! Like, you know, nothing.

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The bees were, it was cool. They were inside.

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About that time, the inner tube on his bicycle

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went pow! And it sounded like a gunshot. He took

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the car for a run and left his bicycle sitting

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there. I think he was more scared of the bees

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than anything else. But we also found out that

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day they had a bank robbery that had happened

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just right on the Georgia -South Carolina border.

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And they had traffic stop checking everybody.

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And we found out if you have a load of bees on

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the back of your Datsun and you're riding in

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the back of it, they let you ride on through

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the checkpoint. Guided us right through and told

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us to keep going. They figured I guess there

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wasn't any bank robber in our truck We got those

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hives home and I was probably the youngest North

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Carolina Registered beekeeper because I got registered

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in order to purchase the bees They had to be

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inspected and in order to get them into Florida.

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They had to be inspected So I was registered

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as a North Carolina beekeeper when I was 12 years

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old. So we did get all those bees back down to

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Florida. By the way, our family had a Datsun

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B210. I had one, had a red one. It was red. It

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did not have a heater. That was like a luxury

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add -on at the time. That was my first car that

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I drove, B210. All right, back to bees. For those

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of us that are in cooler climates and spring

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is upon us now, the bees are starting to fly,

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is now a time that we need to be concerned about

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Varroa? Or have they had a nice long brood break

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and we can just ignore it for a while? Yes, now

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is when you want to definitely do your spring

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checks to make sure where your mite level is

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at. Hit them while there's a... brood break as

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they're coming out of that brood break get your

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treatment started get the mites under control

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so you can have a good honey flow coming on your

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mites will start multiplying about doubling every

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six weeks so it's better to have a low number

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or a non -detectable than have them you know

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through the wintertime months. What's a low number?

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Because I used to hear three or four percent,

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now I'm hearing one or two percent. What is acceptable

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before I need to treat? Yeah, we recommend below

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three percent. So at three percent and above,

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you need to treat anything below that, preferably

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non -detectable, meaning you're getting pretty

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much all zeros and maybe a one is the best level.

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Your main problem isn't necessarily the mites,

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it's the viruses, a vector. I want to hear about

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some of your products. I know some of them like

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Apigard, Apistan have been around for a long

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time. Could you maybe, Paulo, give me just a

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brief what the different products are. And listeners,

00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.539
we promise not to turn this into an infomercial,

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but this is good information. What they are.

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And then I want to talk about your new product.

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Go ahead. Yeah, sure. So we have Epstein in the

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U .S., which I'm sure it was the first Prada

00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:12.879
register for borough control in the U .S. and

00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.919
many, many other countries was the first Prada

00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.519
that worked very, very well for many years until

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the resistance to tau flu ballinate arrived or

00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:27.779
occurred. And so from that moment, the Prada

00:12:27.779 --> 00:12:31.500
started to have some efficacy problem. not because

00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:35.500
of the product, but because of the active ingredient

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resistance. So, VITA have been working on that

00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:42.860
matter for many years, investing a lot of money

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on researching how to work on the resistance

00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:51.779
to tau fluvalinate. And we proved that if you

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do not use any tau fluvalinate or flumethrin

00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:58.679
for three years in a row, the products start

00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.799
working very well again. and these studies have

00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.700
been for the last 20 years proving that if you

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treat every three years with apistan, the product

00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:17.879
works 95 % or above. Let me just take a minute

00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.799
here to thank our presenting sponsor, Man Lake.

00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:23.919
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00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:27.740
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00:13:27.740 --> 00:13:30.960
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00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:35.679
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It's in the show notes. For $10 off your first

00:13:53.690 --> 00:14:01.210
$100 purchase. Now, back to the guest. So Epistane

00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:04.450
still is a very important tool for the beekeepers

00:14:04.450 --> 00:14:09.590
in the US. It is important that you can use this

00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:12.169
product only if you don't use it for the last

00:14:12.169 --> 00:14:14.690
three years, at least two or three years. So

00:14:14.690 --> 00:14:17.129
be watching for that resistance build up, in

00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:21.070
other words. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The

00:14:21.070 --> 00:14:24.809
second product is what we call Apigar. In the

00:14:24.809 --> 00:14:29.070
US, you call it Apigar. Well, Apiary. That's

00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:33.490
why I used the long A. Yeah. Yeah. I will say

00:14:33.490 --> 00:14:36.529
many times Apigar. I'm sorry for that. But you

00:14:36.529 --> 00:14:42.129
mean Apigar. That's OK. So Apigar is a thymole

00:14:42.129 --> 00:14:45.620
-based product. with a very unique technology

00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:50.940
because it's a prada that works by contact and

00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:55.960
by vapor. So we need bees to go and pick up the

00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.080
shell and remove the shell from the tray or from

00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:04.759
the doscar because in that way the small tiny

00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.120
thymol particles remain on the body of the bees

00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.419
and they distribute the thymol through the colony.

00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.700
and in that way is how the Prada works, apart

00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:18.419
from the vapor. Regarding the unique formula

00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:22.700
of APgar, because it works by contact and by

00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:26.539
vapor, these two modes of action make Varroa

00:15:26.539 --> 00:15:30.600
very difficult to develop any resistance to the

00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:34.120
Prada and to the active ingredient. So this is

00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.440
a very important tool for the beekeeper, even

00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.120
more now in the US and Canada, because the last

00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:44.240
two or three years, you have the increase of

00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:47.759
the resistance to amytras has been developed

00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:52.299
and moved through every state in the U .S. and

00:15:52.299 --> 00:15:55.840
having a lot of problems with this kind of product

00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:01.519
based on amytras. So Apigar is one of the best

00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.679
tools to help and to reduce the varroa resistance.

00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.620
Are there times when you should or shouldn't

00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:11.169
use these products? based on heat, based on brood

00:16:11.169 --> 00:16:15.289
cycle? APR, yes. APR, you cannot use when you

00:16:15.289 --> 00:16:20.330
have the super on because the potential of no

00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:23.210
contamination of the honey, but it may transfer

00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:27.330
some odor of thyme mold to the honey. Never happen.

00:16:27.629 --> 00:16:31.029
Yeah, but it cannot be used when you have the

00:16:31.029 --> 00:16:35.250
super on. And also if the temperature is high

00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:40.320
above 77 Fahrenheit. you can reduce the dose

00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.879
to the half. And that is allowed in the US, and

00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.879
that will have a similar efficacy as the full

00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.379
dose at lower temperature. Epistan also you cannot

00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:53.600
use during the honey flow when you have the super

00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:58.519
on, but Epistan hasn't got any temperature restriction.

00:16:59.019 --> 00:17:02.000
It works with a low or high temperature. Also

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:05.880
it's very cold. Apiga will not work as it should

00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.549
be because it needs temperature for the vapor

00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:12.450
and for the activity inside the colony so the

00:17:12.450 --> 00:17:17.049
bees can go and pick up the shell. That is also

00:17:17.049 --> 00:17:20.509
important. So the range of temperature for AP

00:17:20.509 --> 00:17:24.029
guard is important. All right, but let's be realistic

00:17:24.029 --> 00:17:26.549
here. There are times that we need to treat when

00:17:26.549 --> 00:17:29.369
we do have honey supers on. What do we do then?

00:17:30.089 --> 00:17:35.799
So we, after many years of hard work, We got

00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:39.859
the registration of barroxan, which is an oxalic

00:17:39.859 --> 00:17:43.640
acid strip. It's a very unique type of cardboard

00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.940
strip, which is allowing the US to be used during

00:17:46.940 --> 00:17:53.059
the honey flow with super on. So this is a very,

00:17:53.059 --> 00:17:57.539
very important tool for the beekeepers. And even

00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:02.400
more now that the summer treatment is being very

00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:06.019
key point to arrive to the fall with the lower

00:18:06.019 --> 00:18:10.680
number of mites before the full treatment in

00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.000
the fall. So, varroxan is a new product that

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.119
is in the U .S. market ready for the beekeepers.

00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.759
Last year, a lot of us saw Randy Oliver's formula

00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:27.480
online and experimented with it. Is this similar

00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.240
to that, this varroxan? It is that it's oxalic

00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:35.660
acid. The efficacy is actually a little better

00:18:35.660 --> 00:18:40.640
than that. And the thing with a homemade product

00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.559
like Randy's, you're having to heat your product

00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.619
mature solution and everything. So let's say

00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:49.680
you're in Florida where we're at pretty much

00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.119
sea level. 212 is your boiling point. If you're

00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.720
up north 4 ,000 or 5 ,000 feet, you may have

00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.119
a total different temperature. So when you're

00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.799
heating oxalic acid in your other products in

00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.220
there, you can actually change the chemical.

00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:10.900
So using a strip that is produced under a control

00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:14.220
that releases at a certain rate is a lot better,

00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.000
gets you a better efficacy than what you do with

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.160
a homemade product. It's a lot safer. Speaking

00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:24.920
of safer, I did Randy Oliver's recipe last year.

00:19:25.130 --> 00:19:29.210
And I wondered, is it going to be safe to now

00:19:29.210 --> 00:19:32.809
cook soup in that pan that I just made this in?

00:19:33.190 --> 00:19:36.049
You know, can I get clean enough? Some of the

00:19:36.049 --> 00:19:40.509
strips had a lot more of the formula on them

00:19:40.509 --> 00:19:42.710
than some of the others. I don't know if that

00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:46.630
makes sense for the bees or not. So while it

00:19:46.630 --> 00:19:49.390
actually did work, I really had concerns about

00:19:49.390 --> 00:19:52.390
it, too. Frankly, I'm glad to hear that there's

00:19:52.390 --> 00:19:56.269
something that's formulated safely and is just

00:19:56.269 --> 00:19:58.309
going to make sense. I think a lot of people

00:19:58.309 --> 00:20:01.769
are going to like it. So basically, Varroxan

00:20:01.769 --> 00:20:06.170
is safe because why? Because of many things.

00:20:06.410 --> 00:20:11.089
It's safe for bees and safe for beekeepers because

00:20:11.089 --> 00:20:15.450
it's manufactured under GMP rules. That means

00:20:15.450 --> 00:20:20.109
that every step is controlled. And when the Prada

00:20:20.109 --> 00:20:24.049
leaves the factory, each strip will have the

00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:27.890
same amount of active ingredient per strip. And

00:20:27.890 --> 00:20:31.450
that is very, very important for the final dose

00:20:31.450 --> 00:20:35.869
to the colony. There have always been sentences

00:20:35.869 --> 00:20:39.470
that organic Prada will not develop resistance.

00:20:39.950 --> 00:20:44.049
And that is not true. That is not true at all.

00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:46.849
If you apply the same active ingredient, even

00:20:46.849 --> 00:20:50.250
if it's organic, all the time, all the time,

00:20:50.329 --> 00:20:53.430
all the time, Varroa can develop a different

00:20:53.430 --> 00:20:55.650
type of resistant, which is not chemical like

00:20:55.650 --> 00:20:58.769
for amitrase or tau fluvalinate, could be a behavior

00:20:58.769 --> 00:21:02.250
of resistant, either a different type of resistant.

00:21:03.309 --> 00:21:07.029
So applying an overdose of the same active ingredient

00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:10.829
all the time, even if it's organic active ingredient,

00:21:11.130 --> 00:21:14.289
it will develop resistance. Maybe it will take

00:21:14.289 --> 00:21:18.309
longer, but at the end, you will have problems

00:21:18.309 --> 00:21:22.269
with that active ingredient. Again, barroxan

00:21:22.269 --> 00:21:25.950
is based on oxalic acid, which most of the honey

00:21:25.950 --> 00:21:30.450
already has oxalic acid on it. Many foods that

00:21:30.450 --> 00:21:33.589
we normally eat every day have even more oxalic

00:21:33.589 --> 00:21:37.930
acid than the full dose of barroxan, but it is

00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:40.970
important that we control the dose and we know

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.920
overdose to avoid any risk of oxalic acid into

00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.539
the honey, because at the end of the day, the

00:21:47.539 --> 00:21:50.579
honey goes to the consumer. So it is important

00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:55.440
that we know which dose we are giving to the

00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:00.079
colonies. So for this reason, the barroxan is

00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.000
safer for the bees and for the beekeeper. Living

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:08.319
outside homemade product that, yes, when you

00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:13.400
mix oxalic acid, and glycerin, and you overheat,

00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:18.660
you produce formic acid. So that is very, very

00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:23.140
dangerous for the cookers that way. It's very

00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:27.339
dangerous. So yeah, this should be taken on consideration.

00:22:28.099 --> 00:22:30.700
And David mentioned the boiling point. I happen

00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.680
to be at 5 ,700 feet elevations. I'm not even

00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.759
sure what our boiling point is, but yeah, it's

00:22:37.289 --> 00:22:39.829
It's higher up here. But if you're at sea level,

00:22:39.950 --> 00:22:41.970
yeah, things are different. My next question

00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:46.289
is, when I do an OA vaporization, I have to wear

00:22:46.289 --> 00:22:50.970
safety goggles and protective gloves and a big

00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:54.490
mask and stuff like that. What kind of safety

00:22:54.490 --> 00:22:57.890
measures do I need to take when I'm using Veroxan?

00:22:58.289 --> 00:23:02.650
If you go through the label, still those safety

00:23:02.650 --> 00:23:06.539
guidelines are on it. because when the product

00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:10.319
was under registration process, in order to get

00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.000
the product into the market, we accepted all

00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:16.299
the safety that was on the oxalic acid label.

00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:20.259
Because the oxalic acid registration and boraxan

00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:24.339
are linked. So we accepted those safety guidelines.

00:23:24.819 --> 00:23:28.400
But to be honest, when you use a boraxan strip,

00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.160
there is no vapor going out. So there is no problem

00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.589
of any danger. breathing in the apiary. So the

00:23:36.589 --> 00:23:39.970
only thing that you need to wear is gloves, with

00:23:39.970 --> 00:23:43.609
a keeper's glove or any latex glove, just to

00:23:43.609 --> 00:23:47.349
avoid the direct contact with the strip. That

00:23:47.349 --> 00:23:51.349
is the main thing that you need to wear when

00:23:51.349 --> 00:23:55.210
you are using Barroxan. And then don't wipe your

00:23:55.210 --> 00:23:58.890
eyes with those gloves. No, no, no, no, no, no,

00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:02.430
no, no, no, no. Remove it before or wash them.

00:24:02.690 --> 00:24:08.099
OK. What is the efficacy of Roxanne? The efficacy

00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:14.259
is over 95 percent, is what we have on our studies.

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:19.279
In the U .S., we have very good efficacy on tests,

00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.079
trials done in Washington and in California.

00:24:23.859 --> 00:24:28.839
In Missouri, we have run many studies in the

00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:32.240
U .S. with universities. probably investigate

00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:36.619
a researcher. Everything is done with the universities.

00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.079
But the efficacy will depend on many different

00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.380
things. You can have higher efficacy or lower

00:24:44.380 --> 00:24:47.259
efficacy depending on the time of the year that

00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:51.680
you treat. Summer treatment, you may have 15

00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.720
frames of growth. So the number of Varroa inside

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.890
the colony are really, really high. And even

00:24:57.890 --> 00:25:02.509
if the product kills 95, 94, 98 % of the mite,

00:25:02.910 --> 00:25:07.170
if you started with 1 ,000 mites, you finish

00:25:07.170 --> 00:25:10.829
with a slow number of mites. But if you start

00:25:10.829 --> 00:25:14.990
with 10 ,000 mites, even with 95 % of efficacy,

00:25:15.509 --> 00:25:17.609
when you wash your bees, at the end, you will

00:25:17.609 --> 00:25:22.329
see mite. So the efficacy will be 95, but you

00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:25.779
may need a follow -up treatment sometime. Also,

00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:29.160
if there are refestations, the efficacy will

00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:33.380
be affected where you place the strip, how you

00:25:33.380 --> 00:25:37.619
apply the product, that is really, really important.

00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:42.900
Barroxan needs to be in contact with the bees

00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:47.759
all the time because you need the bees to go

00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.240
and chew the strip, remove the active ingredient,

00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:53.819
and distribute the active ingredient through

00:25:53.819 --> 00:25:57.869
the colony. So it is very important that when

00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:01.130
you place a strip, you place in frame with brood,

00:26:01.349 --> 00:26:03.569
if that is possible, because you will know that

00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:06.109
bees will be taking care of the brood. So you

00:26:06.109 --> 00:26:09.250
will have all the time bees walking around the

00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:13.710
strip. And so that is important because we receive

00:26:13.710 --> 00:26:16.069
some questions from beekeepers that they place

00:26:16.069 --> 00:26:20.089
the strip between the boxes, like the homemade

00:26:20.089 --> 00:26:23.720
product at the tower. And in that way, the efficacy

00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:28.000
will not be the same. The strip should be folded

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:31.019
in half and placed between the frames in the

00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:34.980
middle of the cluster, so we know that bees are

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:39.019
in contact all the time. On the label, it's allowed

00:26:39.019 --> 00:26:42.640
that you move the strip from one side to another

00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:46.240
side. And why is this? Because you are applying

00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:49.940
four strips. Folding in half are eight strips.

00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:55.609
a half a strip. So it's a lot of trip for the

00:26:55.609 --> 00:26:58.990
bees. So some bees, they used to move away from

00:26:58.990 --> 00:27:02.250
the strip because they don't like it, because

00:27:02.250 --> 00:27:04.990
it's an acid. At the end of the day, it's an

00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:07.150
acid because it's something that is not normal

00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:12.650
for the bees. So they move away. And if they

00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:15.630
are not in contact with the bees, you don't have

00:27:15.630 --> 00:27:19.769
good efficacy. So if you go back three, four

00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.359
weeks, after the application of barrock sand,

00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:25.519
and you see that the nest has moved away from

00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.339
the tree, you need to take the tree and place

00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:32.299
it again in the middle of the business in order

00:27:32.299 --> 00:27:37.240
to ensure that the tree is in contact with the

00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.380
bees. So this small thing will improve the final

00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:45.609
efficacy of the product. Makes a lot of sense.

00:27:45.970 --> 00:27:48.589
For our listeners that are in parts of the world

00:27:48.589 --> 00:27:53.950
where tropyl -alapsed mites have also infiltrated,

00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:58.809
do these work on those mites as well? No, no,

00:27:59.230 --> 00:28:03.690
no. There are a few old studies on thymol that

00:28:03.690 --> 00:28:07.690
work. Probably formic acid, but oxalic acid in

00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:11.890
this way, no. Maybe if you make evaporates, maybe

00:28:11.890 --> 00:28:14.880
yes, but... We need to test it, but I don't believe

00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.059
we have a big efficacy. Still work to do there

00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:21.160
then. Yeah. David, I get asked this question

00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.740
a lot. Why is an alcohol wash so important versus

00:28:24.740 --> 00:28:29.039
a sugar roll test? Your accuracy. If you do an

00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.059
alcohol wash and you're getting the bees that

00:28:31.059 --> 00:28:33.720
are older bees from, let's say, outside the dive

00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.319
or from off of a window seal or somewhere, you

00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:39.640
know, if you're in your hunting house, you will

00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.569
not get an accurate mite count. So you always

00:28:42.569 --> 00:28:46.049
have to take the bees from emerging brood, young

00:28:46.049 --> 00:28:49.109
bees coming out, and you'll have a more accurate

00:28:49.109 --> 00:28:52.950
mite count using 300 bees. So if you get 300

00:28:52.950 --> 00:28:56.769
bees and you end up with nine mites in that alcohol

00:28:56.769 --> 00:29:01.109
wash, you're at that 3 % level. You can take

00:29:01.109 --> 00:29:05.329
that and really figure out if there's a mathematical

00:29:05.329 --> 00:29:09.309
equation you can look at to figure how many bees

00:29:09.309 --> 00:29:11.829
or how many mites are in your whole hive from

00:29:11.829 --> 00:29:16.170
that and which is fairly simple to do but that

00:29:16.170 --> 00:29:18.710
gives you your most accurate where powdered sugar

00:29:18.710 --> 00:29:22.710
you'll get about probably 75 % of your mites

00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:26.069
off of the bees but since you're using such a

00:29:26.069 --> 00:29:29.710
small sample size 300 bees you're not getting

00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:34.240
an accurate count. So alcohol is the best. And

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.799
a lot of people say, well, if you use powdered

00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.220
sugar, you're not killing the bees. There's been

00:29:39.220 --> 00:29:42.119
some research now that after you've shaken the

00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:45.019
bees without powdered sugar on them, they end

00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:49.539
up dying within 72 hours anyhow. So you're not

00:29:49.539 --> 00:29:52.940
doing anything else but slowly killing the bees,

00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:56.380
the three or four hundred. How often should we

00:29:56.380 --> 00:30:00.329
be testing? I recommend every four weeks, four

00:30:00.329 --> 00:30:03.430
to six weeks. I know some backyard beekeepers,

00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:08.170
it's hard for them to do that. But because reinfestation,

00:30:08.730 --> 00:30:10.849
it's not that your mite level builds up. You

00:30:10.849 --> 00:30:12.950
know that it's going to double every six weeks

00:30:12.950 --> 00:30:16.289
after springtime starts because of your brood

00:30:16.289 --> 00:30:19.809
cycle, the way the mite regenerates or their

00:30:19.809 --> 00:30:23.079
mite cycle. But what ends up happening is we

00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:26.039
have what are called mite bombs or hives that

00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.180
are dying away from your actual apiary. And so

00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:33.599
your bees go over for a free meal and get their

00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.019
leftover honey and everything. But they also

00:30:36.019 --> 00:30:39.859
bring all their mites back because that hive's

00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:44.039
slowly dying. And so they bring all these mites

00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.880
back. So that's why it's good to do every four

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:50.029
to six weeks, check your bees. So is it true

00:30:50.029 --> 00:30:52.690
that drones tend to drift around from different

00:30:52.690 --> 00:30:56.029
hives to different hives also? Yes, actually

00:30:56.029 --> 00:30:59.369
what we're finding is we used to say that worker

00:30:59.369 --> 00:31:01.890
bees didn't drift that much unless it was in

00:31:01.890 --> 00:31:04.730
a bee yard like your commercial operation where

00:31:04.730 --> 00:31:07.450
they're all in a row. But there's some new studies

00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:10.450
out of actually here in the University of Florida

00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:13.869
that shows worker bees do a lot more drifting

00:31:13.869 --> 00:31:17.420
than we originally thought. what happens with

00:31:17.420 --> 00:31:21.119
workers and drones. Drones are welcomed pretty

00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:24.420
much all the time back to any hive. But workers,

00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:26.920
as long as they have some nectar coming in or

00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.519
pollen, they're accepted to any hive too. And

00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.000
they were doing some work at a UF here. And it's

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.779
amazing that they were finding bees drifting

00:31:37.779 --> 00:31:41.640
within the yard to apiary, but also drifting

00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.730
upwards of two miles away to other hives. What

00:31:45.730 --> 00:31:48.630
we used to think we knew, we're finding out with

00:31:48.630 --> 00:31:52.349
better research and more research that some of

00:31:52.349 --> 00:31:54.990
the books that we've got out there may have been

00:31:54.990 --> 00:31:57.509
correct at the time, but some people used to

00:31:57.509 --> 00:32:00.569
say that it was a king bee and now we know for

00:32:00.569 --> 00:32:03.569
sure it's a queen bee. How about some advice

00:32:03.569 --> 00:32:06.819
for brand new beekeepers? I think a lot of people,

00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:09.619
especially hobbyists, they think, oh, yeah, I've

00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:11.559
heard of these Varroa mites, but I'm going to

00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:14.200
be treatment free because I believe in organic

00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:19.440
everything and I won't have those mites. My bees

00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.700
are healthy and they're all by themselves here.

00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:25.140
Any advice for them? I love to talk about that

00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:27.920
because actually with Vita, we have a couple

00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:32.019
products that you can incorporate in with IPM

00:32:32.019 --> 00:32:35.039
integrated pest management. And one of them,

00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.980
it isn't a product we sell, but having bees that

00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:42.640
are hygienic or resistant somewhat to mites,

00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:45.619
definitely. Now for a backyard beekeeper, some

00:32:45.619 --> 00:32:49.359
of these strains of hygienic bees, or let's call

00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.299
them Russian bees, some of them, may not be what

00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:55.059
they're suited to manage because they're more

00:32:55.059 --> 00:32:58.690
defensive bee. those genetics are out there.

00:32:59.009 --> 00:33:02.970
So then we also have some products that are via

00:33:02.970 --> 00:33:08.029
Vita cells that are actually they cause the bees

00:33:08.029 --> 00:33:11.549
to groom themselves and remove the mites. It's

00:33:11.549 --> 00:33:14.430
called the bee gem. And so it helps where the

00:33:14.430 --> 00:33:16.630
mites or the bees are coming in with the mites

00:33:16.630 --> 00:33:19.210
on them to remove them off. So if you're wanting

00:33:19.210 --> 00:33:22.250
to go chemical free, there's a couple different

00:33:22.250 --> 00:33:24.450
things. There's actually a couple of nice papers

00:33:24.450 --> 00:33:28.720
out there that give you a huge amount of opportunities

00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.359
to be chemical free. But I'll tell you, after

00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.720
about 18 months to two or three years, you'll

00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.460
find out that as hard as you try to be chemical

00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:42.900
free, you'll finally have varroa mites. So using

00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:46.079
something, you know, if you want to be more organic,

00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.240
which our varroxin is organic, thymol product

00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:53.240
is a very chemical free, even though it's a thymol

00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:57.009
product, it's very easy to use. Be aware that

00:33:57.009 --> 00:33:59.210
you're going to have mites, you're going to have

00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:01.990
other pests like small high beetles and things

00:34:01.990 --> 00:34:05.910
that are there. Knowing what's out there and

00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:09.110
educate yourself, get a good mentor, get involved

00:34:09.110 --> 00:34:12.969
at the beekeeping club. Not necessarily always

00:34:12.969 --> 00:34:15.489
go checking on the internet because some of the

00:34:15.489 --> 00:34:18.769
stuff you find on the internet isn't necessarily

00:34:18.769 --> 00:34:21.849
what you need. Oh come on, half of the information

00:34:21.849 --> 00:34:25.050
there is great. You just don't know which half.

00:34:25.710 --> 00:34:29.409
The half. 75 % of the half is correct. Yep. And

00:34:29.409 --> 00:34:32.510
by the way, new beekeepers, you will get Varroa

00:34:32.510 --> 00:34:35.670
and Varroa will kill your bees, period, unless

00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:38.710
you do something about it. Yep. Or the viruses.

00:34:39.190 --> 00:34:42.349
The viruses that are associated. You know, we're

00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:47.030
now saying there's roughly about 72 to 75 viruses

00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:50.289
that are associated with honeybees and Varroa

00:34:50.289 --> 00:34:53.590
mites. And there's actually some new viruses

00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:58.269
that aren't even Varroa part, meaning they're

00:34:58.269 --> 00:35:02.269
not vectored by Varroa. But there's some new

00:35:02.269 --> 00:35:05.110
information coming out on some wax moth viruses

00:35:05.110 --> 00:35:08.969
that we would never think that wax moth would

00:35:08.969 --> 00:35:11.989
harbor a virus that would be lethal to anything.

00:35:12.710 --> 00:35:14.849
Guys, I appreciate your time. I think we could

00:35:14.849 --> 00:35:18.210
spend hours and hours on all of this. If people

00:35:18.210 --> 00:35:20.369
have more questions, where should they go for

00:35:20.369 --> 00:35:24.780
some guidance? There are a few options. One of

00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:29.219
them is going to a VW Health website. The other

00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:33.000
one is contacting David. David, if you can tell

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.760
your phone number or email, we'll help. We'll

00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:38.800
stick something in the show notes for people.

00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:41.980
Guys, is there anything else that's imperative

00:35:41.980 --> 00:35:45.010
that we talk about on this topic? Actually, yeah,

00:35:45.110 --> 00:35:47.130
something I'd like to put out, you know, beekeepers,

00:35:47.130 --> 00:35:50.389
I get called all the time that wax moths killed

00:35:50.389 --> 00:35:54.550
by hives. And something that I like, I was just

00:35:54.550 --> 00:35:57.769
at University of Florida teaching our 18th year

00:35:57.769 --> 00:36:01.329
of bee college. And I'm the one person that I

00:36:01.329 --> 00:36:04.630
should have graduated by now, but I did all 18

00:36:04.630 --> 00:36:08.429
years of either teaching or always in that capacity.

00:36:09.070 --> 00:36:13.670
But wax moths are a secondary They're there to

00:36:13.670 --> 00:36:17.469
really destroy the old comb so a new hive can

00:36:17.469 --> 00:36:20.010
move into there. Having a good, strong, healthy

00:36:20.010 --> 00:36:23.070
hive will control wax moths. All right, Paulo.

00:36:23.329 --> 00:36:26.150
Do you have a wild and crazy beekeeping story?

00:36:26.170 --> 00:36:29.050
You've been doing this for a long time. Yeah.

00:36:29.309 --> 00:36:32.610
So it is funny today. It wasn't at the time.

00:36:32.829 --> 00:36:38.429
So I was very young. I went to Mexico to help

00:36:38.429 --> 00:36:43.800
400 beekeepers to convert from normal honey producer

00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:47.440
to organic honey producer in Chukatan. So I've

00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:50.880
been there working for one year and traveling

00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:55.019
every day to visit different communities in the

00:36:55.019 --> 00:37:00.059
middle of nowhere. So hours on a van in the middle

00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:05.280
of the Chukatan. And most of these small communities,

00:37:05.659 --> 00:37:09.940
they do not speak Spanish. They speak Masha.

00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.900
which is their all local language. So when I

00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:19.219
arrived there, there was always children that

00:37:19.219 --> 00:37:23.480
they helped us with the translation from Spanish

00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:28.559
to the Magia. So we used to go to different apiaries

00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.280
and see the colony, watch colony and give some

00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:36.840
advice. And it was one day that there was a very,

00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:40.969
very old beekeeper, very old beekeeper. and he

00:37:40.969 --> 00:37:45.590
only speaks Maya, so we went with the... I don't

00:37:45.590 --> 00:37:48.409
remember exactly, but it was a 12 -year -old

00:37:48.409 --> 00:37:51.889
nephew or something like that to the abjury.

00:37:52.289 --> 00:37:55.949
It was a two -hour walk in the middle of the

00:37:55.949 --> 00:38:00.530
jungle. At some point, we get lost in the middle

00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:06.650
of... of that. Uh -oh. Yeah, you cannot speak

00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:09.500
with the man because he... doesn't speak Spanish,

00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:14.219
so only Maya. We were walking and walking and

00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:18.480
walking for different places until some point

00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.559
that he saw a tree and said, oh, I found the

00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:25.920
way back. And finally, after eight hours of walking

00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:30.780
around the middle of Xucatay, we returned to

00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:35.360
the small village in this part of Mexico. So

00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.980
it was very fun. after that. But at the time,

00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.659
it was scary to spend the night in the middle

00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:46.059
of the jungle there. So yeah, that was one of

00:38:46.059 --> 00:38:51.320
the funny... Glad you made it back. Any experiences

00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.820
where bees treated you in some kind of way you

00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:59.139
didn't expect? Well, in Mexico was complicated.

00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:03.429
In the south of Mexico, the bees... They were

00:39:03.429 --> 00:39:07.190
waiting for you. They heard the engine of the

00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:11.070
van arriving miles away, and you start dressing

00:39:11.070 --> 00:39:15.909
up far away, and they start arriving and giving

00:39:15.909 --> 00:39:20.409
you the welcome to Mexico. It's a chilly place,

00:39:22.030 --> 00:39:25.929
but really lovely place to work with bees. It's

00:39:25.929 --> 00:39:29.670
amazing. Everything is virgin, and yeah, it's

00:39:29.670 --> 00:39:33.380
a potential. There's the honey. 100 % organic,

00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:36.800
because they don't do much with those bees. And

00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:40.539
they have a lot of barroa. So what happened with

00:39:40.539 --> 00:39:43.940
those bees and barroa, why they don't die, is

00:39:43.940 --> 00:39:48.039
because naturally, the colony swum, and they

00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.179
go and they left empty the colony. And because

00:39:51.179 --> 00:39:54.320
they return every six or eight weeks to that

00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:57.000
apiary, because they are far away, so they are

00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.019
walking only to... harbored the honey, whatever

00:40:00.019 --> 00:40:03.199
honey that is there. So in that period, there

00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:07.619
was another swarm going into that hive. So it's

00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:11.360
not always the same hive. You always have new

00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.260
hives, and so they produce three to five kilos,

00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:20.599
which is two and a half... About eight to 11

00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:26.059
pounds? Yeah, with the potential of making 40,

00:40:26.059 --> 00:40:30.119
50 kilos of honey. because they have eight, nine

00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:34.380
months of bloom everywhere, beautiful weather.

00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:40.019
And yeah, so Baroa killed the hives, even now.

00:40:40.099 --> 00:40:44.460
So this is the truth. Are there a lot of Africanized

00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:47.500
genetics? Is that why they were so hot? Yeah,

00:40:47.579 --> 00:40:51.780
yeah, yes. Most of the south of Mexico, they

00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:55.360
have that Africanized bees, which is OK for them.

00:40:55.940 --> 00:40:58.739
It's the way that they always have bees because

00:40:58.739 --> 00:41:02.539
they go and return, go and return. But as a commercial

00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:05.519
beekeeping, it's very hard to do it in that way.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.039
Well, I love how you put it. They were waiting

00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:11.519
to welcome you. Yeah. Paolo and I both have been

00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:16.940
throughout Guatemala, Costa Rica, Guyana. I travel

00:41:16.940 --> 00:41:20.780
significantly through the Caribbean. Now, it's

00:41:20.780 --> 00:41:23.460
funny because a lot of the bees in the Caribbean

00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:27.769
act like Africanized bees, but when we've done

00:41:27.769 --> 00:41:31.250
tests on them, they're actually just Apis mellifera

00:41:31.250 --> 00:41:35.269
mellifera or a form of the European honeybees.

00:41:35.289 --> 00:41:39.409
They're just more defensive, but throughout Costa

00:41:39.409 --> 00:41:44.429
Rica and Guyana, they're very Africanized and

00:41:44.429 --> 00:41:46.530
yet they still manage them. They make a lot of

00:41:46.530 --> 00:41:49.130
honey on them. They do meet you when you come

00:41:49.130 --> 00:41:51.750
up to the with the truck. You better be suited

00:41:51.750 --> 00:41:55.480
up and they will. introduce themselves to you.

00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:58.059
I'll take my nice friendly bees here anytime.

00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:01.019
Hey, David and Paulo, thank you so much for your

00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:03.800
time today. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.880
Thanks again for joining us here on Bee Love

00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.659
Beekeeping, presented by Man Lake. Another great

00:42:11.659 --> 00:42:14.820
place for more information on everything related

00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:18.300
to this podcast is in our email newsletter. You

00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:20.900
can sign up for it for free at BeeLoveBeekeeping

00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:23.929
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00:42:23.929 --> 00:42:26.230
for the honey or the money, you're in it for

00:42:26.230 --> 00:42:27.909
the love. See you next week.