Demaree Beekeeping Method, Honey Bees In The News, Crazy Beekeeping Stories

WEBVTT

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May I have your attention, please? The following

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is not the real Jeff Fox release. If your teenage

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son wants nothing more than to live the life

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of a drone bee, you might be a beekeeper. If

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you do more splits than a gymnast, You might

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be a beekeeper. If you refer to your divorce

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as swarming behavior, you might be a beekeeper.

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I'll give you a minute to think about that one.

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Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented

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by Man Lake. Hey, another thank you to all those

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who contributed ideas for the new Not Jeff Foxworthy

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intro. They were excellent. We've used quite

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a few of them, and if you're still thinking of

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others, keep them coming. We love them. Our guest

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today is in fact two guests from the Keepers'

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Hive. We'll be discussing the Dimari method of

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beekeeping, including single brood chamber management.

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It's a truly interesting concept and different

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than how most of us were taught in traditional

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beekeeping. Before we check in with them, let's

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check in on bees in the news, starting with commercial

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beekeeping economics. Headline. United States

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honey production down 4 % in 2024. While the

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average number of colonies producing honey was

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actually up 3 % from 2023, the yield per colony

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averaged 51 .7 pounds, which was down 6%. But

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the good news, honey prices were up 5 % in 2024,

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to an average of $269 per pound. These of course

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are wholesale numbers. Average price paid per

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queen was $18 in 2024. Pollination income for

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2024 was $226 million, down 11 % from 2023. And

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from India, and I'm trying so hard not to laugh.

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This is serious. The police confirmed that a

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bee swarm injured 50 people attending a funeral

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on Monday. According to a station house officer,

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the bees attacked the congregation after being

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disturbed by the heat from the cremation fire.

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Police stated that those affected received first

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aid at a nearby facility before some were hospitalized.

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The officer added that medical personnel treated

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all casualties and most victims were later sent

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home. Also in India, a swarm of bees attacked

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a group of tourists at the Alora Caves on Monday

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afternoon, leaving at least 70 people injured,

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one needing hospitalization. And speaking of

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stings, this comes from Surprise Arizona. A man

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is recovering in the hospital after he and a

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group of kids were attacked by a swarm of bees.

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Here's the quote, the adult male was checking

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his mailbox when he unknowingly came across a

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beehive. The bees became aggressive and he was

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stung multiple times. Firefighters were called

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and arrived on the scene after the adult was

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stung and as they arrived they saw a group of

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youth riding their bikes in the area and also

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being stung. Firefighters put the kids inside

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the fire engine to keep them away and in the

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process four firefighters were stung. And the

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article concludes with this quote, a beekeeper

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arrived at the scene to control the swarm. Now,

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by the way, if you're that beekeeper, please

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reach out to me because I don't know how to control

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a swarm in attack mode. Alrighty, let's get to

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today's interview. I'd like to welcome to the

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show today, George Datto. Oh, please tell me

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I pronounced that right. 100 % correct. George

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Datto and Nate Wolf coming to us from beautiful

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Pennsylvania or Delaware. How are you guys? We're

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doing great. Eric, how are you today? Good. Thanks

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for having me. I know one of you lives in Pennsylvania

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and one Delaware. Whose house are you at today?

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We're at Georgia's house in Pennsylvania. Hey,

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we're going to be talking about something fun.

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As listeners know, I love new products. I love

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gadgets, but I also like really great new concepts

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and beekeeping, too, because I just don't think

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we have it all figured out. And today we're going

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to be talking about the keepers hive and the

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whole philosophy behind it, because it's a little

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bit different than beekeeping in a regular Langstroth

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hive or a top bar hive or something else. We're

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going to be talking all about that. But first,

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let's meet who we have on here today. Hey, George.

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Hey, Eric. Tell us a little bit about you and

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what your beekeeping journey has been like. So

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yeah, my name is George and I've been keeping

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bees in southeast Pennsylvania for about 15 years

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now. I guess I would consider myself a sideliner

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beekeeper. I manage about 70 hives, largely for

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honey production. I love innovation and I love

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that aspect of it too. I've also raised over

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100 queens a year, made nukes, so all aspects

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of beekeeping I find tremendously fun and and

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just love the hobby of beekeeping. And Nat, you

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haven't been beekeeping as long, but you brought

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to this project your woodworking skills. Tell

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us a little bit about that. Well, I'd say it's

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been about eight, nine years ago. I saw this

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fellow that I had never met before working bees,

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and I thought to myself, this guy's got to be

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crazy in all those bees. Isn't he getting stung

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or something? But he kept coming back and he

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got me interested. And one day I said, Can I

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come watch what you're doing?" And he said, sure,

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come on. And from that day on, I was hooked.

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I do not consider myself a big beekeeper. I'm

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just a hobbyist. And there isn't very much time

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that goes by that I don't come back to George

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and say, okay, George, I have another problem.

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What do I do? We've been together now for about

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nine years. Yeah, I've spent my living as a woodworker,

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as a carpenter. So that's where I come into this.

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We had We had some ideas and I tried to put it

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together and George has helped me over the years

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to get it polished to a point where it is now.

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So George, give us an idea for those that haven't

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seen the hive keeper hive. My understanding is

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that it uses a single brood chamber and that

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brings with it a whole other kind of beekeeping

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and a little bit different philosophy for those

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of us. that are used to using very traditional

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couple of Langstroth deeps. Tell us what led

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you up to coming up with this idea and a little

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bit about how it works. So the keepers hive has

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two products. It has a one queen keeper and a

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two queen keeper. So the history of this hive

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goes back to when I started my beekeeping, I

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apprenticed under sideliner slash commercial

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beekeeper who ran single brood chamber hives.

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and use the Demere swarm control as management

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for managing the single brood chamber. And I

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saw how effective that management strategy was

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for not only swarm prevention, but honey production.

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I was like, wow. So I really learned how to do

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the Demere really well, but I also learned how

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much work that that entailed. And I think through

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the years, many people don't consider that as

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a management strategy. One, because it can be

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somewhat confusing on how to do it. And secondly,

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it does involve lifting a lot of boxes off to

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do it because you ultimately need to get down

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to your single brew chamber and therefore you

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need to remove all the boxes above it. Yeah,

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that's the history of my beekeeping and how we're

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here today, at least the foundation of it. So

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your idea then was use this Demery philosophy,

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but fix the problem of having to lift five or

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however many boxes off so that you could get

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to the brood chamber. Is that right? Well, that

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was Nats. I didn't know any better. Right. So

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someone taught me this and it seemed to work.

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So I said, OK, I can do this. You know, every

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so often I take all the boxes off, you know,

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go down to the brood chamber, move brood up.

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Put all the boxes back together and the hive

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won't swarm and you'll make a lot of honey. This

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is awesome, right? I told you years ago when

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I was watching George and I said, can I go with

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you and just show me? And he said, come on. Well,

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I went with him several different times and it

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was in the middle of the summer and it was hot.

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And he kept saying, OK, lift these boxes, take

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this apart. And every time we did, the bees were

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going all over the place. And it was hot and

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Neither one of us have a really good back. And

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I said to him one day, I said, George, this is

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crazy. Why do you do this every single time we

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come up to these bees? I mean, isn't there a

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better way? And he says, well, no, not really.

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You have to get down to the bottom in order to

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take care of your bees. And I thought, this is

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crazy. There's got to be a better way. And George

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says, well, if you can come up with it. Go for

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it. And I told that people have tried. People

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have tried to put bees in drawers. People have

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tried to do all kinds of different innovations

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to keep the vertically oriented hive. Yet remove

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the need to move boxes to get to the bottom,

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right? So I've always thought that and not that

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I have a lot of experience with horizontal hive

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configuration, whether or not it be a top bar,

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a lands hive or or whatever, but I have always.

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thought the bees prefer to go up and down then

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side to side from just a honey storage standpoint

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and orient their brood to the honey. So that

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was the challenge. I was like, Nat, let's try

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to keep it vertical and not go horizontal with

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it. I think the challenge that we had to overcome

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was to somehow gain the ability to move frames

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in a hive And the only way to do that is to prevent

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them from being propylized in place. We had to

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stop and think about, OK, well, how do you stop

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a bee from propylizing? And the fact is, it can't

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be done. Anything a bee walks on, she will propylize.

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So that got me thinking, what if somehow I prevent

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them from walking on the areas that I need to

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keep clean? So that's basically how we came up

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with this whole system of being able to access

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your frames without lifting off your honey supers.

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And we have actually made it possible to slide

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frames out from underneath the honey supers.

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And we've been able to prevent them from being

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propolized in place. Now for people listening

00:11:37.090 --> 00:11:40.220
to this podcast, Which does not have video right

00:11:40.220 --> 00:11:43.659
now. I recommend that you go to thekeepershive

00:11:43.659 --> 00:11:46.799
.com You'll be able to see what George and Nat

00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.519
are talking about But guys go ahead and just

00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.879
describe for us in case we had our eyes closed

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Or we're out exercising or driving right now.

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We can't look at the website Describe what it

00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:04.210
is that you've come up with So essentially what

00:12:04.210 --> 00:12:08.110
we have is a single brood chamber hive. So the

00:12:08.110 --> 00:12:11.889
brood is in one box and on both the one queen

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and the two queen keepers, it's an eight frame

00:12:14.149 --> 00:12:16.409
deep brood chamber. So basically we have a brood

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chamber and then we have a queen excluder. And

00:12:19.269 --> 00:12:22.330
then above that we have our supers. And what

00:12:22.330 --> 00:12:25.929
you're able to do is you're able to basically

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on the side of the brood chamber, we have a hinge

00:12:29.289 --> 00:12:32.700
roof. You basically open a hinge roof. Four frames

00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:34.740
are underneath the roof, four frames are underneath

00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:36.980
the queen excluder, and you can sort of open

00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:39.059
the hinge roof, look at your bees through our

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observation window, remove the observation window

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and the frame guards, and get to all eight of

00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.580
the frames that are in the brood box without

00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:52.039
removing the supers above. Let me just take a

00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.200
minute here to thank our presenting sponsor,

00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:57.279
Man Lake. Whether you're a seasoned beekeeper

00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:00.600
or just getting started, Man Lake has the equipment

00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.080
and the expertise that you need to set your bees

00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.820
up for success. Including my new favorite woodenware,

00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.440
Man Lake's wax dipped hive kits. They are absolutely

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necessary. And don't forget your discount code

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MLBlove10. It's in the show notes. For $10 off

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your first $100 purchase. Now back to the guest.

00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:37.600
So all of a sudden now to do your brood inspections,

00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.460
to see if you need to demerade, to see if to

00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:43.720
do a mic count, whatever you want to do with

00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.580
your bees. You don't have to disturb all the

00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:49.120
boxes above and all the foragers. You basically

00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.720
sit down, open up the roof, and do what you need

00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.059
to do. So that's on a one queen, on a two queen

00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:59.250
keeper. It's basically the same thing, but it's

00:13:59.250 --> 00:14:02.629
two hives, two of these back to back with using

00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:06.389
10 frame supers, while the one frame hive uses

00:14:06.389 --> 00:14:10.350
five frame supers. So it's basically a double

00:14:10.350 --> 00:14:12.669
instead of a single. But the brew chamber and

00:14:12.669 --> 00:14:14.870
the way you work the hive is essentially the

00:14:14.870 --> 00:14:17.850
same on both hives. Okay, let's talk about the

00:14:17.850 --> 00:14:21.169
single first. I think if people understand the

00:14:21.169 --> 00:14:25.070
single queen setup. then picturing the double

00:14:25.070 --> 00:14:28.470
queen is fairly easy. So you mentioned that the

00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:32.789
honey supers that are above the brood box, there

00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:38.950
is room to open a like a roof on half of the

00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:42.350
brood chamber and get to all of the frames. So

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based on that, what size are the supers above?

00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:50.809
Are they like nuke size or are they some special

00:14:50.809 --> 00:14:54.419
thing that we need to get from you? The one queen

00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:59.360
keeper is nuke sized supers. The two queen keeper

00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:03.700
uses 10 frame supers. In both situations, the

00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:09.419
honey supers cantilever over half of the brood

00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:13.000
box. The other half is exposed when you open

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.840
the hinged roof. What was important to us when

00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.940
we were designing both hives is that we wanted

00:15:18.940 --> 00:15:21.340
beekeepers to be able to use all their existing

00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:23.700
equipment, right? So we didn't want to have special

00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:26.379
bottom boards or special frames or special supers

00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:29.220
or special outer covers. So whatever you are

00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:32.340
currently using that is a traditional Langstroth

00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:36.559
equipment will absolutely 100 % work on the keepers

00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.559
hive. It is using all standard equipment except

00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.580
for the brood box. Which is what we get from

00:15:42.580 --> 00:15:45.740
you. Okay. Yeah. And it looks pretty cool. Now,

00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:50.700
I don't have a bunch of Nuke boxes. I need some,

00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.320
but so for me, it might make more sense to do

00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:56.379
the double queen and then I can put regular 10

00:15:56.379 --> 00:15:59.460
frame boxes on top. And I think the idea of a

00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:02.879
double queen is really cool anyway. It may be

00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.299
a little bit above my IQ level to figure out

00:16:05.299 --> 00:16:07.419
how to do that, but we'll see how we can do.

00:16:07.659 --> 00:16:10.539
Let's talk about the Demery method that keeps

00:16:10.539 --> 00:16:13.639
coming up and what it's like keeping bees in

00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.659
a single brood chamber, because this could apply

00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:20.039
whether people are using your system or a Flow

00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:25.399
Hive or just a regular Demery system. Give us,

00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:31.220
George, just a little primer 101 on what beekeeping

00:16:31.220 --> 00:16:34.120
is like that way. So when we say single brood

00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:38.470
chamber hive, What we mean is that the queen

00:16:38.470 --> 00:16:42.690
and the brood is limited to one box and you use

00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:45.129
a queen excluder in that configuration So when

00:16:45.129 --> 00:16:47.029
you're doing a single brood chamber hive, you

00:16:47.029 --> 00:16:49.289
are using a queen excluder You have your queen

00:16:49.289 --> 00:16:51.509
in your brood generally in the bottom box You

00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:53.850
have a queen excluder on top of that and then

00:16:53.850 --> 00:16:56.809
your supers above the the challenge of a single

00:16:56.809 --> 00:16:59.309
brood chamber hive is first swarm management,

00:16:59.309 --> 00:17:02.980
right because when bees are maximally building

00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:05.859
up in spring or wherever that is, wherever you're

00:17:05.859 --> 00:17:09.740
beekeeping, the colony is likely to swarm if

00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:11.700
you just leave them without any management in

00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:14.819
the single brood chamber, right? So your options

00:17:14.819 --> 00:17:18.339
are some people in order to prevent swarming

00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:21.319
will just make lots of splits. So in the single

00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.470
brood chamber, they'll pull out. 60 to 70 percent

00:17:24.470 --> 00:17:27.069
of the brood and potentially the queen and make

00:17:27.069 --> 00:17:29.730
two or three splits and That'll be their swarm

00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:32.549
management for single brood chamber and that

00:17:32.549 --> 00:17:36.170
works really well You just have to be want and

00:17:36.170 --> 00:17:38.890
need all these highs, right? So you can split

00:17:38.890 --> 00:17:42.049
away But your number of hives is going to increase

00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:44.390
tremendously quickly with that method, right?

00:17:44.710 --> 00:17:47.720
The other thing that that does is it decreases

00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.039
your forager force in your hive, right? So all

00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:52.559
of a sudden, you don't have as many bees in that

00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.460
hive. It won't swarm, but it may not produce

00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:58.279
as much honey. Some people say, you know, you

00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:00.539
can make a decision what you want your hive to

00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:02.420
do. You can make your colony either make honey

00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:05.259
or make splits, and it's hard to do both. So

00:18:05.259 --> 00:18:08.059
when you do the split method for swarm control,

00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.220
you make lots of bees, but you don't make as

00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:12.839
much honey. So the demeria is an option where

00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.039
you basically are making a vertical split within

00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:17.809
the hive. to decrease swarming, but maintaining

00:18:17.809 --> 00:18:20.470
the bee population in that hive and not making

00:18:20.470 --> 00:18:25.250
increases. So that is another way to do swarm

00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:27.369
control when you're doing single brood chamber

00:18:27.369 --> 00:18:31.309
hive is the demuree. Let me see if I can just

00:18:31.309 --> 00:18:35.369
sort of summarize my understanding of how that's

00:18:35.369 --> 00:18:38.430
going to work. And please correct me along the

00:18:38.430 --> 00:18:42.190
way. OK, but to put it in its most simplest terms

00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:46.930
with the demuree. to keep from swarming i'm going

00:18:46.930 --> 00:18:50.769
to take i'm going to do a split okay so i'm going

00:18:50.769 --> 00:18:54.769
to take a nuke box and i'm going to take out

00:18:54.769 --> 00:18:58.849
the frames that have queen cells i'm going to

00:18:58.849 --> 00:19:02.109
put them in this nuke box and then i'm going

00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:05.630
to take that nuke box and put it up as if it

00:19:05.630 --> 00:19:08.390
were a honey super there's not going to be a

00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:10.869
queen in there there may be some queen cells

00:19:10.869 --> 00:19:15.039
and remember we have separated the brood chamber

00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:20.779
with a queen excluder. So up in this box that

00:19:20.779 --> 00:19:24.299
is acting like a honey super now, eventually

00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:28.099
those bees are going to be gone. All of the brood

00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:30.299
is going to be gone. And then the bees are going

00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:32.579
to backfill it with honey. Did I get that even

00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:36.000
close? Pretty close, Eric. So what you're doing

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.630
is. Early in the spring and the bees are building

00:19:39.630 --> 00:19:42.029
up and there's a lot of brood down in your single

00:19:42.029 --> 00:19:44.730
brood chamber. You're going to go in there, you're

00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:47.190
basically going to leave the queen and one frame

00:19:47.190 --> 00:19:50.630
of emerging brood in the bottom and you're going

00:19:50.630 --> 00:19:53.029
to take all the other brood and move it up in

00:19:53.029 --> 00:19:55.529
the hive in a one queen keeper of five frame

00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:57.369
deep because there are deep frames in the brood

00:19:57.369 --> 00:19:58.730
box. So you're going to have a deep at the top

00:19:58.730 --> 00:20:01.450
of your stack and that's going to basically take

00:20:01.450 --> 00:20:03.829
all the nurse bees and all the bees to the top

00:20:03.829 --> 00:20:06.460
of the hive. and it's going to decongest the

00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:09.680
brood chamber, and the colony is going to decide

00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:11.700
it doesn't want to swarm anymore. The queen's

00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:14.220
going to continue to lay. And as you said, those

00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:16.480
bees, all that brood at the top is eventually

00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.099
going to hatch out and rejoin the colony at the

00:20:19.099 --> 00:20:21.940
bottom. And then they'll backfill that five -frame

00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:25.079
nuke box with honey. So pretty much what you

00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.200
said is what happens. You're basically doing

00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.200
a vertical split within the hive, leaving the

00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.400
queen down below in the single brood chamber.

00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:35.640
and moving all the other brood and nurse bees

00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:38.859
up to the top. Now, what makes the keepers hive,

00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:42.220
what makes it so easy to do that is you don't

00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:45.259
have to lift and remove and take apart boxes

00:20:45.259 --> 00:20:48.440
to do that. It basically takes that, the ability

00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.440
to do that and makes it so simple and so easy

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.779
for any beekeeper to do. And one thing you don't

00:20:54.779 --> 00:20:57.099
want to do, Eric, while you're doing this is

00:20:57.099 --> 00:20:59.710
you mentioned queen cells. While you're doing

00:20:59.710 --> 00:21:03.289
the demuree in this hive, one thing we don't

00:21:03.289 --> 00:21:06.609
want to do is have queen cells at the top of

00:21:06.609 --> 00:21:10.450
this hive. So if you should go in and find a

00:21:10.450 --> 00:21:12.750
queen cell while you're doing the demuree, we

00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:15.650
recommend that either you take and make a walk

00:21:15.650 --> 00:21:18.809
-away split or just scrape that queen cell off.

00:21:19.109 --> 00:21:21.430
You don't want to set another queen in the top

00:21:21.430 --> 00:21:24.039
of your hive. Thank you for clarifying that.

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.380
So ultimately, it's best to do this even before

00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:29.980
you have any of those queen cells then. Correct.

00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:33.240
Yeah. Okay. The art of the Demery is when to

00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.000
do it. How to do it is one part of the Demery,

00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.940
right? Which is easier to learn once you think

00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.299
about it a little bit. The art is when to do

00:21:41.299 --> 00:21:43.980
it, right? And that really depends on the weather.

00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.690
It depends on what your colony is doing. are

00:21:46.690 --> 00:21:49.289
the factors that are going to make you decide,

00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:53.009
but ideally it's done preemptively right before

00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:56.470
they start to make queen cells. Okay, I'll ask

00:21:56.470 --> 00:21:59.509
the bees what date that is this year where I

00:21:59.509 --> 00:22:03.369
live because I know I'm going to tell everybody

00:22:03.369 --> 00:22:05.990
George to email you and ask them what date they

00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:09.470
should do that. I think people get really fascinated

00:22:09.470 --> 00:22:12.549
by the Demery and really get into the weeds on

00:22:12.549 --> 00:22:16.900
what to move and how to do it. But the really

00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:19.680
question is, is when to do it? And people have

00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.220
asked me that, Eric. And unfortunately, I say,

00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.380
I can't tell you, because it's all, there's so

00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:29.640
many factors that go into that, that is the art

00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:32.180
of beekeeping, right? And every colony is different,

00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.720
and every, you know, your weather is different.

00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:38.579
And yeah, so you get, the more you do it, the

00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:42.089
more you learn beekeeping in your area. And you

00:22:42.089 --> 00:22:44.930
sort of get a you sort of get an intuition of

00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:47.670
when to do that Demere to start. And I realize

00:22:47.670 --> 00:22:50.430
that you can't do that, which is why I said everybody

00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:53.490
should email you asking. So at the keepers side,

00:22:53.569 --> 00:22:56.269
we really want to try to do good customer service,

00:22:56.269 --> 00:22:59.369
you know. So Dave says, OK, answer everybody's

00:22:59.369 --> 00:23:02.049
question. Don't blow anybody off. Smile as you're

00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:04.690
answering that question. So I try really hard.

00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:09.339
to help people. Okay, you're asking for it, George.

00:23:10.220 --> 00:23:12.740
Eric, I think one important thing here is, and

00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:16.039
I don't mean to push just our product, but I

00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:20.180
think one thing about beekeeping and management

00:23:20.180 --> 00:23:23.160
and figuring out just when to do your demerit

00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:27.759
is being able to keep a check on your bees. You

00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.240
can't just walk away and come back three weeks

00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.000
later and think you're going to be able to solve

00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.380
all the problems or whatever issues come up.

00:23:35.779 --> 00:23:38.180
You have to be able to be into your bees on a

00:23:38.180 --> 00:23:41.180
regular basis. And that is one of the features

00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:45.700
that we tell people that we're making management

00:23:45.700 --> 00:23:50.359
better simply because we're giving you the ability

00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.759
to easily check on your bees. You can go and

00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.880
check one of these hives. in 10 minutes from

00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:01.000
start to finish and walk away. And if you have

00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:04.420
that ability, you're going to be much more prone

00:24:04.420 --> 00:24:08.000
to keep a regular check on these bees. And you

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.819
will know when it's time to demerit because you're

00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:13.759
going to be able to pace that queen and that

00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.579
what she's doing. And if you're not lifting a

00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:19.119
bunch of 50 pound boxes, you're more likely to

00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:22.619
do it too. Exactly. I mean, there's been many

00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:25.359
days, you know, that I thought I just don't feel

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.160
like lifting those boxes. I'm not going to go

00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:28.720
up there and do it today. And you know what?

00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:31.279
I suffered the consequences because there was

00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:34.539
a problem and I didn't tend to it in time. You're

00:24:34.539 --> 00:24:37.119
getting me tucked into this. There was a summer

00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.480
where I started out in overwinter with nine hives

00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.059
out right out in my backyard. And come March,

00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:47.799
I was down to two because I just did not pay

00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:50.119
the attention that needed it. And that was before

00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.970
we came up with this solution. Don't forget that

00:24:52.970 --> 00:24:55.210
you could sit on a stool and do the whole thing,

00:24:55.289 --> 00:24:57.710
too. That's right. And I tell people and they

00:24:57.710 --> 00:25:00.609
know I want to stand. I was like, OK, you can

00:25:00.609 --> 00:25:02.390
stand and work the keepers hive if you want.

00:25:02.529 --> 00:25:04.650
I'd highly recommend sitting on a stool and doing

00:25:04.650 --> 00:25:09.400
the whole thing. But hey, I want to sit. Sign

00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.660
me up for the sit. Does the Keepers Hive come

00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:16.440
with a bench or a stool? Not yet, but you can

00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.500
use a five gallon bucket or a 10 frame deep box

00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:22.740
on its side. You probably have a company, Eric,

00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:25.619
that would function as a stool. All right. But

00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:28.039
it's mind blowing. It's like, yeah, you really

00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.059
can do your whole hive inspection while sitting

00:25:31.059 --> 00:25:34.240
in one place on a stool. And that's working a

00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:39.140
Langstroth hive on a stool. How about that? All

00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:41.839
right. I love it. Now I have to ask a hard question.

00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:43.940
I have a feeling some people are going to tell

00:25:43.940 --> 00:25:47.099
me, hey, you're in a cold climate. You can't

00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:50.380
overwinter with just one brood box. How does

00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:54.160
that work? So we have options. You can overwinter

00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:57.039
with a single eight frame deep brood box if you'd

00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.559
like. You could also overwinter with five deep

00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.880
frames above your brood box. And you can stack

00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.400
on more five frame boxes on top of that too.

00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.170
So The keepers hive design does not limit you

00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:13.329
to only overwintering in a single. You can overwinter

00:26:13.329 --> 00:26:16.349
in a single plus a new box or multiple new boxes

00:26:16.349 --> 00:26:19.589
above it. One thing I've learned through this

00:26:19.589 --> 00:26:22.890
is that bees really do like being in a single

00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:25.930
brood box most of the time, honestly. The only

00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:28.390
time bees do not like being in a single brood

00:26:28.390 --> 00:26:30.890
box, well, they may like it, but they'll swarm,

00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:33.910
right? Outside of swarm season, your colony is

00:26:33.910 --> 00:26:37.910
going to do so, so much better. when you keep

00:26:37.910 --> 00:26:40.210
your brood in a single brood box, and you keep

00:26:40.210 --> 00:26:43.049
your bees wall -to -wall in that box. And that

00:26:43.049 --> 00:26:46.529
goes for the summer, during the dearth, dealing

00:26:46.529 --> 00:26:49.390
with small high beetles, and even overwintering.

00:26:49.430 --> 00:26:52.609
I really think that you're going to notice some

00:26:52.609 --> 00:26:55.990
pretty cool stuff when you get your bees down

00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:59.690
to a single box to overwinter. Just so they have

00:26:59.690 --> 00:27:02.789
enough honey above them. Right. Now one option

00:27:02.789 --> 00:27:07.359
here is when we... take the one queen keeper

00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.740
and we set it up to winterize. Once we've harvested

00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:13.400
our honey and we're just going to winterize our

00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.980
bees, we will come all the way down to only having

00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:21.819
one super above the brew chamber, and then we

00:27:21.819 --> 00:27:25.619
remove the queen excluder. Now there are two

00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:30.720
ways. The super above the brew chamber can now

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.779
be loaded with five frames of honey. Without

00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:37.599
the queen excluder, as they empty the brood chamber

00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:40.140
during the course of the winter, and the cluster

00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:42.980
moves up to that next box, the queen will be

00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:46.279
able to move with the cluster. The second option

00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:50.460
is that instead of putting five frames of honey

00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:54.880
above the brood chamber, you can leave that box

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:59.599
empty, leave the queen excluder on, and put supplemental

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.799
feed in that box. Some people say while I produce

00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:06.920
honey, I want it all and they want to do supplemental

00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:11.660
feed and that works. Other people are not as

00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:13.839
worried about their honey production and would

00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:16.220
rather leave the five frames of honey for them.

00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:19.599
So that's a two option. Yeah, I'd rather have

00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:21.700
my bees eating their own honey during winter.

00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.450
That's just me. Right. Everybody works it a little

00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:28.190
different. But that's how we do the single -brewed

00:28:28.190 --> 00:28:31.029
chamber. We do remove the queen excluder for

00:28:31.029 --> 00:28:33.609
the winner and allow her to come up with the

00:28:33.609 --> 00:28:36.210
cluster. Yeah, I mean, in general, I agree with

00:28:36.210 --> 00:28:42.130
you, Eric. Again, above the queen excluder on

00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:45.190
the keepers high, the exchange boxes are deep.

00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:47.420
where you do the Demarais and the other boxes

00:28:47.420 --> 00:28:50.200
are mediums. So all the mediums I harvest for

00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:52.700
myself and that deep exchange box, which still

00:28:52.700 --> 00:28:55.160
backfill with honey, as you said, I just drop

00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:57.859
that down on the brew chamber for winter. So

00:28:57.859 --> 00:29:00.140
I'm basically overwintering with eight frames

00:29:00.140 --> 00:29:02.720
in the brew chamber and five deep frames from

00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.839
the exchange box. So for me, I want to harvest

00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:08.960
my honey out of my mediums and the deeps I want

00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.910
to leave for the bees. It's how I organize. Everybody

00:29:11.910 --> 00:29:14.589
organizes it differently, but I say mediums are

00:29:14.589 --> 00:29:17.250
for me and the deeps are for the bees. Now I

00:29:17.250 --> 00:29:18.849
feel like there's something that I really should

00:29:18.849 --> 00:29:22.769
have said up front, and that is for our brand

00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:25.329
new beekeepers or those that are just thinking

00:29:25.329 --> 00:29:28.430
about getting into beekeeping, my apologies.

00:29:28.630 --> 00:29:31.930
This probably made no sense to you, but for those

00:29:31.930 --> 00:29:33.529
that have been beekeeping for a while, I think

00:29:33.529 --> 00:29:36.170
they can picture most of this. Your website will

00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:39.339
be in the show notes. It's been fun talking to

00:29:39.339 --> 00:29:42.539
you guys. I have one last thing to ask. George

00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:45.380
or Nat, either one of you or both, can you give

00:29:45.380 --> 00:29:48.259
us a wild and crazy beekeeping experience that

00:29:48.259 --> 00:29:51.720
you've had? Well, I'm also president of the Chester

00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:53.859
County Beekeepers Club in southeast Pennsylvania.

00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:56.660
And in 2021, we had a great flood come through

00:29:56.660 --> 00:29:59.099
our apiary, right? So we had a flood come through.

00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:01.779
We had 30 hives in our apiary and basically washed

00:30:01.779 --> 00:30:04.519
them all down the river. Believe it or not, 20

00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:07.000
of them, we were able to go down the river, find

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.849
them. and ended up putting them back in single

00:30:09.849 --> 00:30:12.789
five -frame boxes, and they all overwintered

00:30:12.789 --> 00:30:15.190
in single five -frame boxes. So it got me to

00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:18.250
really think hard about how much space and how

00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:20.630
much food do the bees really need to survive

00:30:20.630 --> 00:30:22.970
the winter. So that was just one of my cool experiences

00:30:22.970 --> 00:30:26.390
of being devastated from the flood and thinking,

00:30:26.549 --> 00:30:28.809
oh my goodness, and then learning a whole lot

00:30:28.809 --> 00:30:31.750
afterwards. How did they not drown? We had them

00:30:31.750 --> 00:30:35.119
all strapped. So somehow the strap kept them

00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.880
and then they floated down the river. Some drowned,

00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:40.859
but I think the ones that floated on the top

00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:42.779
and they all ended up in a certain spot. So they

00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:45.640
went down the river about 500 feet and then basically

00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:47.779
a bunch of trees stopped them. So we had all

00:30:47.779 --> 00:30:50.160
these nukes that were all piled up on each other

00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.799
and two thirds of them actually survived the

00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:55.400
flood and then survived the winter in a single

00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.769
five frame deep box. So cool. Awesome. By the

00:30:59.769 --> 00:31:02.410
way, that just reminds me, I saw an article recently

00:31:02.410 --> 00:31:05.490
of these beekeepers over in England that are

00:31:05.490 --> 00:31:08.869
in a floodplain and they kept losing hives and

00:31:08.869 --> 00:31:13.029
they finally for their hive stands, they basically

00:31:13.029 --> 00:31:18.299
built pontoons so that when a flood came. the

00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:22.380
hives could float and be OK. And then when the

00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:24.400
waters came down, they were OK and they could

00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:26.700
rescue them and put them back or whatever. But

00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:28.779
a couple of our club members said we should raise

00:31:28.779 --> 00:31:31.779
the hive stands up to be six feet in that apiary

00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:34.160
and have like a steps that you go up and manage.

00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.359
I was like, dude, this is a this is once in a

00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.440
hundred year flood. I don't know if we want to

00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.059
go there. But I tell you, it's like those moments

00:31:41.059 --> 00:31:44.509
is when you learn, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it's

00:31:44.509 --> 00:31:46.869
from the crazy things that happen and sometimes

00:31:46.869 --> 00:31:50.210
the disasters that happen that we learn the most.

00:31:50.789 --> 00:31:54.089
100%. We just want people to do the management

00:31:54.089 --> 00:31:57.210
that we know is going to help them keep their

00:31:57.210 --> 00:32:01.289
bees healthy and alive and just making a hive

00:32:01.289 --> 00:32:05.589
where you can do it easier and potentially more

00:32:05.589 --> 00:32:08.170
effective by using a single brood chamber, honestly.

00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:10.150
That's what it's about at the end of the day.

00:32:10.630 --> 00:32:12.920
That's the message. There's a lot of no lift

00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.940
messaging out there and a lot of no lift options,

00:32:16.059 --> 00:32:18.740
but I think our hive goes beyond a no lift option.

00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.259
I really think it's about optimizing a single

00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:25.940
brew chamber in Demere that really can make your

00:32:25.940 --> 00:32:29.859
beekeeping more fun and probably more effective

00:32:29.859 --> 00:32:32.759
at the end of the day. With this method, I would

00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:35.730
think that people need to They need to be checking

00:32:35.730 --> 00:32:38.710
their hives often. How often would you recommend?

00:32:39.250 --> 00:32:41.549
Once you get outside a swarm season once a month

00:32:41.549 --> 00:32:44.250
is enough, honestly. Okay. Bees are quite happy

00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:46.509
in a single brood chamber once the swarm impulse

00:32:46.509 --> 00:32:49.950
is done, right? So it's during the swarm season

00:32:49.950 --> 00:32:52.430
that you need to check probably once every 10

00:32:52.430 --> 00:32:55.289
to 2 weeks, but you have to know the duration

00:32:55.289 --> 00:32:57.069
of your swarm season and you have to know when

00:32:57.069 --> 00:32:59.289
your swarm season is done, but then it's done.

00:32:59.529 --> 00:33:01.670
And then it's mite management. Well, think about

00:33:01.670 --> 00:33:04.230
how easy it is to check mite levels in this hive,

00:33:04.309 --> 00:33:06.349
right? You just go, you open up the roof, you

00:33:06.349 --> 00:33:09.950
pull out root frame three, you shake your bees

00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:12.529
and you're done. No tearing apart the hive to

00:33:12.529 --> 00:33:16.230
do a mite level. No lifting boxes. And some people

00:33:16.230 --> 00:33:18.490
will say... I don't know if I agree with this.

00:33:18.609 --> 00:33:20.950
Some people say, well, if you super a hive enough,

00:33:21.069 --> 00:33:23.990
if you take a single brood chamber hive and super

00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:28.589
it enough right before the honey flow, you can

00:33:28.589 --> 00:33:31.390
decrease swarm impulse too just by not having

00:33:31.390 --> 00:33:33.849
them backfill the brood chamber. You just give

00:33:33.849 --> 00:33:36.630
them ton of space to store all the nectar, and

00:33:36.630 --> 00:33:40.170
then they're unlikely to swarm. That's another.

00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:43.559
aspect of single brood chamber. I don't see why

00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:46.420
not to do single brood chamber management. And

00:33:46.420 --> 00:33:48.839
I think it's catching on a little bit. Beekeepers

00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.359
start with double deep brood boxes or multiple

00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:53.500
medium brood boxes, and that's how we learn.

00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:56.019
And people say, well, your hive is really not

00:33:56.019 --> 00:33:58.579
for beginners. It's too complicated. I was like,

00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:00.440
you got to learn something at some point. So

00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:02.579
why don't you learn the most easiest and effective

00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:05.700
way right off the bat, honestly. Double deep

00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:08.260
brood chambers are... I think part of the reason

00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:10.780
why new beekeepers lose so many hives to some

00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:13.579
extent. I think that's harder to manage in some

00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:16.199
ways than what I'm asking people to manage, honestly.

00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:18.599
I think there's many people to get into beekeeping

00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:22.219
that don't realize the weight of these boxes

00:34:22.219 --> 00:34:25.920
and do not realize until it happens that, oh,

00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:28.179
my goodness, this box is so heavy. I can't lift

00:34:28.179 --> 00:34:31.239
this. Or when they get into inspect and they

00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.539
tear it apart, all of a sudden you got a lot

00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:35.989
of bees. flying all over the place, you know?

00:34:36.130 --> 00:34:38.429
I mean, that's another beauty of the design is

00:34:38.429 --> 00:34:41.190
like, when you sit down and do your hive inspection,

00:34:41.889 --> 00:34:44.949
you're not disturbing the colony to do your inspection.

00:34:45.369 --> 00:34:47.010
Dave always says, George, you really should put

00:34:47.010 --> 00:34:49.090
on a veil. You really should be showing people

00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:50.829
the right way to protect yourself. I was like,

00:34:50.989 --> 00:34:53.369
dude, the bees are fine with me doing a hive

00:34:53.369 --> 00:34:55.769
inspection, honestly. I'm not disturbing them.

00:34:56.050 --> 00:34:58.389
I'm just gently going through the brew chamber

00:34:58.389 --> 00:35:01.119
and doing what I need to do. We think the best

00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:03.219
way to get started with beekeeping is apprentice,

00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:06.039
right? Go like that hung out with me or go hang

00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:08.300
out with Eric or go find somebody to hang out

00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:10.219
with them, you know, and see whether or not you

00:35:10.219 --> 00:35:11.719
love it or not. Because if you don't love it,

00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.239
don't do it. All right, George Datto and Nate

00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.719
Wolf, thank you a ton for being on the show with

00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:20.079
me today. Hey, Eric, thanks a lot for having

00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.880
us. We really appreciate your time. Happy beekeeping,

00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:27.860
Eric. Thanks again for joining us here on Be

00:35:27.860 --> 00:35:31.380
Love Beekeeping presented by Man Lake. Another

00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:34.500
great place for more information on everything

00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:37.760
related to this podcast is in our email newsletter.

00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:41.059
You can sign up for it for free at BeLoveBeekeeping

00:35:41.059 --> 00:35:44.099
.com. And remember, if you're not just in it

00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:46.380
for the honey or the money, you're in it for

00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:48.079
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